Cynthia Murphy & Stephanie Thwaites: 'One of the most exciting parts is that tingly feeling when you know you're onto something really special'
BY Emily Powter-Robinson
22nd Nov 2023
CBC has been running creative writing courses since 2011. Since then, over 200 of our former students have gone on to get major publishing deals. To celebrate this landmark moment, we hosted two free webinars for aspiring writers giving ticket holders the chance to put their questions to the expert panel.
We’re delighted to share these highlights from the second of our webinars which featured Curtis Brown literary agent Stephanie Thwaites and her client Cynthia Murphy, YA horror author (The Midnight Game, Win, Lose, Kill, Die and Last One to Die) and viral TikTok sensation. Cynthia was a student on our Writing YA & Children’s Fiction course in 2015. Plus, we’ve included a link to watch the full event recording for free.
Read on to learn about Cynthia's time studying with us and how she worked with her literary agent Stephanie to get Last One to Die ready to submit to publishers. Plus, advice on the writing and publishing process, including how to hook a literary agent.
CYNTHIA’S EXPERIENCE ON THE COURSE
CM: I had previously written a YA novel. I sent it out to agents, and it got rejected. After that I realised, I didn’t really know what I was doing. I looked around for courses, I'm in Manchester so there was nothing local to me that wasn't an MA or something that required a lot of my time. An online course seemed brilliant. When I saw the Curtis Brown Creative course, the biggest draw for me was writing with other people and then getting it in front of an agent.
I ended up on the Autumn 2015 Writing YA & Children’s Fiction course and I still have friends from that course now. Stuart White (who runs Write Mentor) was on that course and other people have been published off the back of it. It became a really nice little writing community. After the course, most of us were still getting rejections but we had that community. We had a safe space to go and talk about things.
Catherine Johnson was just fab. I learned how to structure a story, I learned what a hook was, all of these different things that I'd been severely lacking from my first book. I remember being on a phone call with Catherine and she said: ‘Don't give up. Just keep going. You’re going to get rejections but there's something there.’ When I had those moments of feeling like I couldn’t carry on, I had that little Catherine Johnson voice in my ear spurring me on.
SUBJECTIVITY IN AGENTING & CYNTHIAS'S PITCH
ST: I've been reflecting on what made Cynthia's writing and the pitch for Last One to Die stand out and it's taken me back to that moment when I was reading those initial chapters and then the full manuscript. As an agent, one of the most exciting parts is that tingly feeling when you know you're onto something really special.
It was a great pitch, it was succinct, it was appealing to me because she referred to Point Horror which we both had a shared love of. Also, the fact she mentioned the CBC course definitely piqued my interest. It just felt like we were on the same wavelength. It was exactly the kind of book that I would love to read and was excited to receive.
There is actually a huge amount of subjectivity in this business. You won't always necessarily hit on the right agent, but when you do, it's incredibly exciting for both parties.
The manuscript felt very polished – probably because it wasn’t the first manuscript had written, and because of her experience working on the course too. The draft that I read didn't need a huge amount of work and so much of it was there already. I spoke to Cynthia and then we met in person, which I feel is crucial to do where possible to make sure you have that connection given that you are going to be working together for a long time. Ideally it’s a relationship that lasts for the length of a career.
FINDING THE RIGHT AGENT FOR YOU
CM: When I sent Last One to Die out, I had some really lovely offers and I spoke to a lot of people but I just knew we weren’t on the same wavelength. You need to be on the same wavelength and share the same vision.
Steph just rang me, dead excited and it was really special to hear someone else so excited about your writing. We had the same vision for it when Scholastic made their offer and I just feel comfortable with Steph.
WHEN TO SUBMIT TO AGENTS
CM: It will take me a while to write my first draft and do my research and then I go back to the beginning and polish it. Make sure it's as tight as it can be, look at it with a critical eye. After I've done that, I just need to get it away from me. When you're at that point where you can't look at it anymore and you've got that excitement that you just need to get it out to somebody else, then that's the time to do it. Everyone works differently but I definitely think when you get to that point, that's a really good way to gauge when somebody else should be looking at it because I think you can overdo it.
When I sent out Last One To Die it was a day or two before I was asked for the full manuscript. So, it was really fast and if I hadn't have had that full manuscript ready, I don't think we would've had the momentum that we did. I would wholeheartedly recommend just having a full manuscript ready to go so it takes the stress out of it and it makes everything a bit more exciting.
THE ROLE OF AN AGENT
ST: All agents work a bit differently and it can vary even from client to client. Essentially, I will always tend to work on a manuscript with an author before submitting their work to publishers and to give feedback and editorial input to ensure a manuscript is in the best possible shape and give it the best chance of finding the right home. When I'm reading it, I'll be thinking of the individual editors in different publishing houses who I think would be a really good fit for it.
Then we pitch to publishers, we'd ideally have several people interested and then we would conduct an auction. We decide and figure out and negotiate how the rights would fall.
We'll make decisions based on the kind of offers that come in and the opportunities that the author is presented with. An agent will negotiate the deal, we'll draw up the contract, we'll make sure that the publisher is doing everything they're supposed to be doing at each stage, leading up to publication and beyond. We'll then collect the royalties as well and we'll make sure we pay out all the money that the author's due too.
We’ll advise every step along the way. We are there to support and champion the author, to be on the author's side, but also to work collaboratively with publishers to ensure that we've got the best possible outcome for all parties – but mainly for the author.
DEALING WITH SENSITIVE TOPICS IN YA/CHILDREN'S BOOKS
CM: TV really helped, looking at the kind of programs that are marketed towards teenagers. If you look at stuff like "Riverdale" that's just finished on Netflix or any kind of teen drama they do, they talk about real issues and you know, they'll have like a gory murder on screen or they'll talk about sex or they'll have relationships. So, I felt safe that I could go into those spaces.
When I wrote the first book, I was a primary school teacher so I was very, very aware of that. I always refer to Last One to Die as like clean teen but with murders that tend to happen off the page. But then by the time we got to The Midnight Game (my third book), we were having gory murders fully on screen and dealing with darker aspects that maybe I didn't feel confident enough to deal with when I knew I had the responsibility of a lot of little people in my care.
I think you can go for it with YA. Publishers, agents, editors, they're going to let you know when it’s too much. Young adults are going through so much that they want to get their teeth into something, but it needs to be believable, and they need to relate to it, it can’t be preachy.
ST: I think there does need to be a kind of safe moral framework for Children's and for YA books too, in a way that you don't really need that for adult books. And again, as Cynthia said, that's something that an editor and agent can help you with and can give a steer on.
TIKTOK & BOOK SALES
CM: Marketing was done on TikTok from Scholastic, but only as much as they would market any other book. It was actually a really organic process; last August I was tagged in a video where somebody had filmed my first page, put some music over it and they'd left the page on long enough that you could read it because it's a whole chapter and it's a really short page. Then they closed the book, you could see the cover and that was it. It was maybe 15, 20 seconds long.
About three weeks later, I was away at a wedding, I had no signal on my phone all weekend and on the Monday my phone had gone mad. Another author had actually text me and said, ‘Why is your book doing so suspiciously well on Amazon?’ and I didn’t know. This TikTok had just blown up. Then somebody else copied that video and it did really well and to this day it has about 7.4 million views. The hashtag #WinLoseKillDie has been seen and then that translated into sales and that book earned out on its own, which was unbelievable.
STAYING MOTIVATED
CM: Having a break is so important, I needed a break after book one. Give up and then pick it up again. Have that break if you need it.
ST: I think all writers will have that experience. There'll be ups and downs along the way. There'll be rejections along the way. Even as agents, we receive rejections. We try to take on clients, sometimes they go elsewhere, or we want to sell a book that publishers will turn down. But I think it is about just continuing to persevere and to have people around you who can support you. Whether it's through doing a course and then finding other writers who can help you or finding friends who are also writing too. It’s key to find people who help you to keep going, who inspire you and help you stay motivated.
This special event is part of our celebrations to mark the landmark moment of 200 former students getting major publishing deals.
Find out more about our specialised courses on how to write for children and young adults here.
The Midnight Game, Win, Lose, Kill, Die and Last One to Die are out now!
The books linked in this blog can be found on our Bookshop.org shop front. Curtis Brown Creative receive 10% whenever someone buys from our bookshop.org page.